Financing Investment Properties: Lower Rates, Higher Returns. Chris Fiorello and John Taylor from Nations Lending join us to explore financing options for investors. They delve into the nuances of Adjustable Rate Mortgages (ARMs), ideal for new investors seeking lower initial rates. The duo also discusses the challenges and solutions for financing investment properties, emphasizing the importance of understanding loan specifics to mitigate risks. They provide insights on turning initial investments into robust real estate portfolios, highlighting products tailored for beginners and the seasoned strategies that have helped investors scale their holdings efficiently.
Brett
0:00:54 – Welcome back to it’s 5 o’clock somewhere real estate podcast. Today we’re going to be talking to John Taylor and Chris Fiorello.
Chris
0:01:01 – You nailed it.
Brett
0:01:03 – I got it. Okay. With Nations Lending. And we’re going to be talking about different products that they have available for investors that are looking to figure out the best way to finance their deals and get into the investment world. So stay tuned.
Sponsorship
0:03:58 – We are sponsored by Title Assurance and Escrow, a title company here in Cordova that does all of our closings, title work, escrows, and we only use Title Assurance and Escrow. That relationship is very important because we can get things done for our investors quickly and easily. So to speak with Title Assurance and Escrow, call 901-737-3332 and ask for Chris or April.
Brett
0:01:41 – Hey, Chris, John, welcome to the show. Thanks for being here. How was the drive to Memphis?
John
0:01:45 – Man, it was great, other than Chris’s driving.
Brett
0:01:50 – Where did y’all come from?
John
0:01:51 – We’re in Huntsville, Alabama.
Brett
0:01:52 – Huntsville, Alabama. Gotcha, gotcha. Okay. Yeah, well, John called me. Actually, someone called me from your office, set up a time for us to talk. You called me, I ignored your call, and told you that we’d talk the next day, and then I ignored your call again because I got tied up. But we finally connected, and I found it interesting that John had come to us, and they found a way for us to be able to help with loans, right? Help our investors maybe originate a loan. I don’t know if you’d call us originators, but so we’re going to be talking about that today. So I wanted to have Chris and John on to talk about the type of products that you all provide. Your words to me were, we have everything. Now, I’ve heard that before.
John
0:02:33 – Yes, sir.
Brett
0:02:34 – Many times before. And it’s always, you know, I hear that and then all of a sudden the guy calls me and goes, man, I can’t do it. I don’t have a product for that. So I don’t expect you to have every product in the world. But the basis of what we do is investment. Our investors are borrowing money to buy properties. Very few are paying cash right now. So that comes down to the type of loan they can get, LTV, down payment terms, interest rates, there’s a lot of factors that come into that. What I would say our bread and butter is the 30-year-old guy with 30 grand in the bank with a 650 to 750 credit score, wanting to get started in real estate, doesn’t have his first house yet and is looking for an avenue to be able to do that. And it’s hard to find someone good enough that understands what this kid’s trying to accomplish in order to put something together to help him achieve his first goal. Because I have many investors now that own 20, 30 properties that all started with me on their first house. So it’s imperative that we as their agents find a way to assist them getting to that next level. Our biggest drawback has been, I think in the sales side, has been financing. Right? I mean guys just say, well, finance is too much. I can’t get my return I want, so I’m just going to wait. So the more we can help these guys find their way through that process, I think the more successful we’ll be. So what would you tell a kid who’s 30 years old, they got 30 grand in the bank, and he wants to buy his first rental property? Let’s just make it easy. Let’s say it’s turnkey, comes with a one year warranty from the builder, whoever did the work, got a tenant in place, paying $1,000 a month. What would be your answer to that kid?
Chris
0:04:12 – As far as what financing we’d recommend?
Brett
0:04:15 – Yeah, what would you recommend to him?
Chris
0:04:16 – I mean, obviously you guys are probably familiar with just your standard Fannie Freddie investment property financing, which typically looks for 25% down in most cases. Obviously that’s what most people are gonna have and we do have access to that. You know, for your beginner, you want the least complicated deal as you have. That’s going to be the least complicated. Get in for something that you can afford. Your 30 grand down will be, you know, 20, 25%, 30% down. Get in easy, good rate, and move on.
Brett
0:04:44 – What would a rate in something like that run today? I know it changes, but what’s the average rate now?
Chris
0:04:49 – Right now and with investment, we see a lot of people doing ARMs because, and again, that depends on the situation. Are you going to hold on to it for a while? Are you flipping it? And it’s a lot of questions going into it.
Brett
0:05:00 – When you’re talking about an ARM, it’s an adjustable rate mortgage.
Chris
0:05:02 – Adjustable rate, absolutely.
Brett
0:05:03 – But it’s guaranteed for a period of time.
Chris
0:05:04 – It’s guaranteed.
Brett
0:05:06 – Their plan is they’ll get an ARM with a better interest rate and when things change, refinance.
Chris
0:05:10 – Typically, what we see with investors is a five-year or seven-year ARM. So your rate’s going to be lower, fixed for the first five to seven years, and then after that we’ll adjust periodically. Again, it’s all situational. So if you’re talking about a beginner, it just depends on your comfort level and what you understand.
Brett
0:05:25 – Since 2008, I have not heard many people talk about the ARM loan because that was a red-headed stepchild in the winning world after 2008 because they claimed that was the reason a lot of people lost their homes is the rates adjusted and they just couldn’t afford it.
Chris
0:05:38 – And I think a lot of people lost their homes because they also didn’t understand what they were getting into. You’re dealing with an investor, which is typically a little bit more savvy buyer. They do understand what they’re doing. And those loans tend to fit that type of a buyer as well. They are still out there. And as a matter of fact, in the market we’re in now, which you guys probably all know where the rates are, an ARM is a phenomenal option. subject to the high rates that we’re seeing right now.
Brett
0:06:13 – I loved the ARM loan. You know, back in, I guess 2008, 9, 10, when things were going south, a lot of people said the ARM loans were predatory, you know, people didn’t understand what they were getting to, and that was true. They figured, oh my God, I gotta, or interest only, a ton of people had interest only loans where you’re only paying interest on a mortgage forever. I never understood that one, but the ARM I always liked because like you said, in the investor world, it gives a guy an opportunity to get into it, low cost, low interest, and he’s got five to seven years to hope that things change enough to where he could adjust out of that one into a more permanent financing.
Nick
0:06:47 – Five to seven years to figure out the next game plan.
Chris
0:06:49 – Yeah, I agree. Absolutely.
Jeff
0:06:51 – Interest only loans, that’s a big $400,000 balloon payment?
Brett
0:06:54 – Well, back in the mid-2000s, everybody did the interest only so they could buy their McMansion and keep up with the Smiths. And then slowly realized, holy crap, I’ve been paying this house for six years and I still owe the exact same amount of money. So if you’re going to do interest only, you might as well just rent a mansion. Why even put your name on a mortgage? Let somebody else carry that money.
Chris
0:07:13 – We had a bunch during that time that did those negative amortization, the pay option ARMs, and you’re ultimately paying less than interest and that was another contributor to the crash in 2008. But the arm itself has always been a strong product. Again, it just comes down to your knowledge And like you said, you have five to seven years to figure it out.
Ident
0:07:41 – If you are enjoying what you are hearing, give us a call at 901-692-7401.
Brett
0:07:48 – I mean, most of my investors will probably hold their properties five to 10 years. Some of them will hold them longer, but most of them after five to seven, if they get a decent equity pickup in that group of, in that portfolio, they’ll liquidate it, 1031 and roll in something else. I’ve got a guy selling a package now. I have two other guys that want to sell their packages, but I keep telling them, what are you going to move it into? Yeah, you’re going to make a good profit, but then you’re going to turn right around and pay 30% more than what you paid for these to buy another set of houses. So we’re trying to find maybe some multifamily solutions and we’ll get into that in a minute. So you’re suggesting for this young guy, ARM?
Chris
0:08:28 – Yeah, I would say get into an ARM.
Brett
0:08:30 – What’s the down payment on ARM loan? What’s today’s going rate on ARM?
Chris
0:08:35 – Your down payment’s not going to be a whole lot different. As a matter of fact, it’s going to be the same and your down payment’s ultimately going to be whatever you want it to be at the end of the day. Again, investment properties are typically looking for 25% down, but outside of that, your rates probably right now on an ARM, obviously this all depends on credit score and all that. You’re gonna probably be looking in the high sixes, I would think low sevens at this stage. Again, depending on credit and everything else that you have going on for you.
Jerry
0:09:01 – So generally one to two points less than the normal?
Chris
0:09:04 – Yeah, you will see that. And so it’s a considerable savings, 100%. It’s a good deal, again, for the savvy borrower that gets it. You don’t wanna put your borrower into that that doesn’t get that in five years, all of a sudden their payment could jump. But for those that understand it and are looking to do that, it’s a great deal.
Brett
0:09:23 – And what is the maximum amount that you can do an ARM loan on? And is it only pertaining to single family/duplex or can you do it in a 30 unit multiplex?
Chris
0:09:36 – Sure, you can do, as far as 30 units, we should be able to do those for ARMs as well. Obviously, we see more right now of the multifamily, you know, two to four unit or single family property. But yeah, you can do, there’s really no limits as long as we’ve got the investor for it, then we can make it happen. We also have, and we’ve got a plethora of stuff. I know J.T. says we can do it all, and like you said, you don’t expect that. But we do have a wide range of things. Obviously, you talk about for the initial investor, the new guy, that’s a great product but we’ve got some things out there too like bank statement loans. We have, I don’t know if you’ve heard the term, you probably have the DSCR stuff.
Brett
0:10:13 – We’ve talked about that a lot on the show.
Chris
0:10:15 – Which we have that in-house and broker which is some stuff that we can talk about the differences between those two but it gives us multiple outlets to try where people have different guidelines.
Brett
0:10:26 – And what’s the difference between DSCR and banks? So DSCR, you’re dealing with the lease income. DSCR is where you just submit your bank statements and…
Chris
0:10:34 – Yeah, so DSCR is essentially cash flow for the property you’re buying. I don’t necessarily need to even really see your income. I don’t need to know, you know, with a normal loan, I wanna see where are you making your money? I need to see your, all that stuff. DSCR is like, show me the property, let’s talk about your cash flow, and we’re gonna lend based on that. And there’s some other little things involved with that, but that’s the crux of it. A bank statement loan is sort of like, approved for your loan as opposed to going down the tax return route.
Brett
0:11:19 – And then you look at a bank statement and get an average income coming in to that account per month and kind of go up, figure out his income based on that. Is that dependent on taxes?
Chris
0:11:30 – Taxes would not necessarily be involved because we’re going to look at strictly what you’ve got in the bank. So, and again, with anything we talk about, there’s guidelines and specifics and stuff that come with that. But, you know, as you talk about just the crux of the approval, you know, we’ve got that kind of stuff at our disposal, which is wonderful.
Jeff
0:11:45 – Chris, do you guys fit fix and flip loans, hard money loans into your portfolio?
Chris
0:11:51 – Hard money is not anything that we do, but it’s something that we could potentially get access to as far as helping, you know, coordinate with the borrowers. But directly with nation’s lending, we don’t do hard money.
Brett
0:12:02 – What about a guy that wants to fix and flip? Do you all have a product at all for a fix and flip?
Chris
0:12:06 – We don’t have a fix and flip. We do not. We do have renovation stuff available. So if a borrower is wanting to get in and do a renovation loan and come in, renovate the property and roll that into financing, that kind of stuff is available as well.
Brett
0:12:17 – That’s what I’m saying.
Jeff
0:12:18 – So you can ask how the renovation loan works.
Chris
0:12:20 – So renovation loan is fairly standard, but they come in and they do an appraisal based on the value of the property after you guys do all the improvements you want to do. So just depending on what they want to do to the property and then the financing will be based on that. So you’d still be structured the same as far as down payment and things like that, but you have the ability to roll it in.
Brett
0:12:41 – But you would actually be able to borrow the money to buy it, borrow the money to rehab it.
Chris
0:12:44 – That’s right. As long as it fits within that scope.
Brett
0:12:48 – Okay, gotcha. So that’s similar to what you’re looking at for your guy.
Chris
0:12:50 – And if I misunderstood the fix and flip term, it’s just because we don’t use that on the mortgage side.
Brett
0:12:56 – Well, our investors do. And Jeff’s got a young investor now that’s just getting started. And he’s looking for financing to do that. Basically buy it.
Chris
0:13:04 – Oh, very cool.
Jeff
0:13:06 – Well, my guy’s a little challenging. He’s been sold something from a hard money lender that’s basically told him if he can buy the property right, keep the cost within a certain amount, he won’t have to come any money out of pocket, period. Other than closing costs and other things like that.
Chris
0:13:24 – And that’s from the hard money guy?
Jeff
0:13:26 – Yeah, the idea is to rehab it and retail it out for enough and turn back around six, nine months later, take all that equity out of the house and refinance it. That’s kind of where he’s at.
Chris
0:13:38 – Yeah, makes sense. And obviously in that case, the hard money piece we wouldn’t be involved in. But with everything we’re discussing, that come back and take all the equity out of it would be something that essentially we could do at that stage.
Jeff
0:13:52 – Well, the renovation won’t even that. I mean, we could work it. It’s like a hard money loan. He’s just going to need to put the 25% down on the property he buys and you guys can still loan him the money to rehab it and then refi it for him.
Nick
0:14:04 – We’ve also got some investors that are looking at purchasing lots and building new construction rentals. We’ve got a group of builders here that do that, that we sell those to investors, work of turnkey, but do y’all have any kind of new construction programs?
Chris
0:14:16 – So we have some new construction, but we don’t have anything necessarily where you would be able to buy the land by itself and then come in. So typically what we see when we see new construction, you know, it’s gonna be a single family, single family residence, and they’ve already either owned the property or they’re lumping it all into one purchase.
Brett
0:14:32 – Well, they own these lots. They own these lots from the land bank. But then as far as taking out a construction loan to build the house itself.
Chris
0:14:40 – Yeah, yeah, so those are certainly something we have access to.
Brett
0:14:42 – Okay, for an investor, because they’re building them for investment. I mean, the builders are gonna build them. We’re gonna put them out on our investor network and sell them to our investors as 4-2 rentals and they sell pretty easily.
Chris
0:14:52 – Yeah, I mean a construction loan is a construction loan. Again, the difference between that and your typical purchase is going to be amount of money that’s put down. So, you know, it’s going to fall along the same.
Jeff
0:15:02 – Why don’t you tell us what you foresee in the future as far as mortgage rates? I’ve been hearing three quarters of a point drop.
John
0:15:10 – Yeah, man, if I had to answer that.
Jeff
0:15:12 – I’d push that back to July or August. What’s going on?
John
0:15:16 – No, I think they released the core CPI today.
John
0:15:20 – It was above expectations, so that sort of put a little bit of a wet blanket on the entire market this morning.
John
0:15:31 – I mean how do you how is your business based out with typically working with investors versus the owner occupants coming in? So basically, Chris can touch on this a little bit, but our company is Fannie Freddie approved, so we service like 90% of our loans. Last I looked, the 6% bond was down like 50 basis points. Everybody was talking about prior to today, everybody was talking about like a Q3, Q4 Fed pivot where we’d start to see rates come down a little bit. I think after today, that’s probably going to push that into Q4, Q1 next year. The projections that I’ve read and seem to agree with are maybe 50 basis points by the end of this year. So, I don’t think we’re going to see significant movement on rates before the end of the year. I do think they’re doing all they can to get inflation under control right now. It’s a jacked up economy. Yeah, it’s a mess. So I think they’re doing everything they can, but yeah, Chris and I have been patiently waiting for that pivot. You know, we had some really good years in 20 and 21 and even most in 22. It’s funny, y’all were talking about the ARM earlier. You know, we didn’t have a big demand for ARM until the rates started going up. And then, you know, the demand for that product just went through the roof and our company, you know, responded and offered it and we had really good success with it. Now sort of the same thing is happening with a DSCR loan. You know we’re starting to see more demand for that and you know this is good to be partnered with a good company that when they see products out there that maybe we don’t have you know as part of the portfolio right now but there’s a demand for it then we can respond to you guys and get something on the street for you. So if I understood your question correctly, we don’t sell a lot of loans off. We actually service most of them. I think our company has about a $10 billion servicing portfolio currently. So, you know, that gives some leeway, you know, when we’re trying to make tough decisions on a good borrower, you know, we have a little bit more latitude to make those type of decisions.
Chris
0:17:21 – A little more creative.
John
0:17:22 – You know, if our, the powers that be, you know, at the corporate office decide that, hey, this is a risk that, you know, we think is viable, we don’t have to worry about, you know, selling it to Fannie Freddie and something coming back on them like they just, you know, they’re making a judgment. Of course, according to guidelines, you know, there’s the ability to repay.
Brett
0:17:36 – Yeah, that makes it easier when you can make those decisions. We all saw what Fannie and Freddie making decisions does to the country, so I’m not sure I think that’s probably a smart strategy. Anybody else got any other questions?
Richard
0:17:47 – Yeah, can you tell us an anecdote of a case where you were really able to be creative for a client and make something happen?
John
0:17:57 – Man, that’s a good one.
Chris
0:18:00 – That is a good one.
Brett
0:18:01 – For those of you who didn’t hear, he’s got a creepy British accent so he’s hard to understand. He has no mic. He was asking Chris and John if they have an example of a situation where you had to get creative. It was a good borrower but had a unique situation that you had to bend the rules for?
Jeff
0:18:19 – Tell us about that guy that was turned down by three lenders. You guys made it work, made it happen.
Chris
0:18:25 – Man, that’s a tough one to deal with. We spent a lot of time at our previous company and went through a ton of deals. Really what it comes down to when you do run into those problems is just having a relationship with the people who are making the decisions. I’ve had a couple of deals where, the good news is I’ve got a background as a Fannie Freddie and FHA underwriter. So I’ve got credentials from an underwriting standpoint. So I do have that capability of being able to get on the phone with our manager and go, all right, y’all are not, you know, we’re not where we need to be. Here’s where we need to be. I’ve had a couple deals here in the last month or so where we’ve got to get on the phone and been able to reverse some decisions. As far as coming up with specifics, man, I can’t, off the top of my head, even remember them. But that’s really, you know, where, you know, a lot of my value is in the branch, is being able to have the knowledge to pull that up, get on the phone and go, all right, I’ll give you a specific, actually I came up with one. We had one of our underwriters that was, I don’t know if you guys have ever had anyone take out a loan on their 401k. Yes. Okay, 401k loans are not something that are entered into your debt to income ratio. And in this particular case, I don’t know what the reason for it, if it was a mistake or not, but it was being included in the debt to income ratio was actually causing us to get a denial on the loan. In this particular case, it was a guideline that I knew and I was able to go and make sure we spoke to the right person and got it handled, got it removed and got the loan approved and closed, whereas had we not done that, it would have moved along the path of denial just because of a mistake. Now, again, that’s not this big massive thing. I know that’s just a tiny guideline, but at the end of the day, that’s the kind of stuff that we can deal with in the branch when you do run into those problems, to have the knowledge of the guidelines, where to look at them. And again, having the experience there where I’ve at least underwritten them and been the person making the decisions is a big benefit when we run into problems like that.
Brett
0:20:18 – Well, I’ve had my run-ins with underwriters where they’ve made requests of my clients. And I’m not a mortgage originator, I’m not a mortgage guy, but I knew that this person had no clue what they were asking for, what they were talking about. Like bizarre stuff. So I appreciate that because I think if an underwriter were to spend a year or two in the mortgage side, then become an underwriter, they wouldn’t be so damn stupid when it comes to asking for stuff.
Chris
0:20:46 – I think that, you know, with the, keep mentioning mentioned 2008 and the crash, and I think with a lot of that common sense underwriting is what we would call it, went out the window. People were really scared. So a lot of these guys are just b y the book, and I think that there’s a fine line between, there’s a lot of subjective stuff in underwriting. It is risk-based, and that’s what we’re required to do is make that, but you can look at a group of information, a bunch of information from a borrower, and make a call on whether or not they’re a solid borrower. It doesn’t mean that you go directly against a guideline, but it means you use your brain. Use your judgment. And you underwrite based off your judgment, not just because something says that maybe this guy is not gonna be good or not. So I hate to say that, but there are things in there where it is black and white. You can read the guidelines, and it doesn’t necessarily say you can or you can’t. It says this is the decision of the underwriter. Well, that’s when you look at the group as a whole and you go, is this a smart move? That’s how I was trained, and that’s the mindset I try to keep as we move forward, and you try not to get lost in that whole black and white, you know, this is it.
Brett
0:21:50 – I just thought some of these underwriters were on power trips, because they would just, like they literally would just send requests to me to provide documents to them on behalf of my client that were just unnecessary, and I would ask them, what do you need this for? It doesn’t matter why I need it, I’m asking for it provided. And I’ve had buyers just cancel. I actually had a girl that got tied up with an underwriter just beating the crap out of us. So she went to a friend of hers, he wrote her a check for 250 grand and financed the house for her and she called that underwriter and told her exactly where to stick her loan and on the day of closing, canceled the whole deal because she just got fed up. So I know underwriters are there to do a job and they’re trying to protect the bank and the lenders and the investors. I get that. But at some point, like you said, you got to have some common sense.
John
0:22:37 – Yeah. Well, and we cross that divide a number of different ways. Obviously not everybody has a Chris, right, that has the experience and the knowledge base to call and argue. And I feel like we’ve got a superpower in the branch because we’ve got him. But we’ve done things in the past like it’s our job as the originator on the loan to tell the story, right? Every borrower has a story. And if you just submit the documents and you don’t tell the story, then that underwriter is going to pick it apart, you know? So you have an opportunity when you submit the loan to literally document, hey, this is what this person is doing. Here’s what they’re trying to achieve. So I think telling the story sort of, I hate to use the term controlling the narrative, but I think, you know, the more information you can give that underwriter, the better decisions they can make.
Chris
0:23:16 – To make them, you know, it’s a good analogy.
Nick
0:23:19 – And with you guys keeping a lot of the stuff in-house, you’re able to do that.
Chris
0:23:22 – That’s right. Yeah, and along the lines of the whole story, one of the things that I used to train our processors on is when you submit your story, you can’t leave any pages out. I can get to the end of it no matter what you give me. I know what your end result is, you’re trying to buy this house, but if I have to make up or try to figure out what the meat of the story is, I’m gonna ask you for as much information as I think I need to put those pieces together. So our job is to train our people to put together the file in a way that it will tell the story properly and get an approval.
John
0:23:52 – And then just to tag on that, I know you had a thought, to tag on that one last thing, the other thing that we try to do is we always try to work with the same bank of underwriters. Like it’s getting to know the people, this person may want this, so we sort of know that going into it We can control that so you know if you’re working a pool of 30 underwriters, man It’s really hard to formulate any type of relationship with that with that wide of a group But if you’re working with three or four Guess what you get to know exactly what they’re looking for and the file goes much smoother because we can we can Account for that ahead of time you know rather than dealing with it after.
Jerry
0:24:23 – Just on a personal note, my last house in Baton Rouge, the loan was originated through Nations Lending and you guys were extremely easy to deal with. I couldn’t believe it. It was like… It was like trying not to get a loan, but I got it anyway.
Nick
0:24:41 – Hey, Chris, Brett alluded earlier, package deals. we’ve got a handful of buyers that are looking to buy houses at a package, it might be eight houses, 10 houses, 15 houses. Is that something you guys work with and does that look any different than a single?
Chris
0:24:55 – So you’re asking like one loan for a bunch of properties?
Nick
0:25:02 – One loan for a whole portfolio?
Chris
0:25:03 – So no, for us it would definitely be property based. Having said that, I don’t know if this fits along the same lines though, I know you deal with somebody like us normally and we’re residential, normally lends to an individual. We do have the capability, though, of lending to an LLC. That’s something we can do. I know that’s been at least big with where we were before because we didn’t have that capability. But as far as a big package deal, we wouldn’t be able to necessarily roll in a bunch of properties to one, so we would be looking at individual.
Nick
0:25:33 – So with you guys lending to an LLC, does that look any different from your end?
Chris
0:25:35 – The program itself is going to be slightly different. I’ve not done one myself, so as far as the specifics, I obviously have access to the information, but I wouldn’t be able to answer that right at this moment. But we do have it in our portfolio to do.
Brett
0:25:47 – Yeah, Chris and John, thanks for being here, Nations Lending. Give everybody a phone number, website, how they can reach out to you guys, if they’re interested in maybe picking your brain about products.
John
0:25:57 – Absolutely, you can reach out to me anytime, john.taylor at nationslending.com. My telephone number is 256-655-7022. I answer pretty much all hours of the day. You can go to Nations Lending, find us through their branch locator. We’re based out of Huntsville, Alabama. That’s our home.
Brett
0:26:13 – But you write loans nationally?
John
0:26:14 – Nationally. We’re in all 50 states. That’s right. So we can do loans anywhere. And then Chris is Chris.Fiorello at NationsLending.com.