In this episode we speak with Michael Gibson, a Memphis real estate investor since 2019. Michael emphasizes understanding markets and staying emotionally detached to make wise investments. Valuable investing tips include diversifying portfolios across various markets and creating financial reserves for unforeseen expenses, as key strategies. Michael advocates ongoing learning and the importance of knowledgeable, responsive local real estate agents while focusing on long-term wealth over quick cash flow.
Jeff
0:00:43 – Welcome back to another episode of It’s 5 O’Clock Somewhere Real Estate Podcast. My name is Jeff McNett. I’m here with Brett Bernard, the founding member of this real estate investment division. We are just a couple of guys sitting around chatting about real estate. Whether you’re a new investor or a seasoned investor, we encourage all your questions and would love to help you. So just give Brett Bernard a call at 901-692-7401.
Brett
0:01:10 – My MemphisInvestmentProperties.com. And we’re also sponsored by Title Assurance and Escrow. Chris and April are great people here in Cordova. 901-737-3332. I work with them exclusively. I don’t deal with other title companies, not because of any other reason than I can just get things done for my investors that I normally can’t get done somewhere else. So they’re just part of our team. And we’re also sponsored by the Stamps Real Estate Company. We are the investment division of the Stamps Real Estate Company. Our broker partner, John Stamps, over there in Collierville. So, today’s gonna be a little bit different show. We actually have one of my investors that we’ve been since 2019 or 2020.
Mike
0:01:49 – I believe it’s 20.
Brett
0:01:50 – Michael Gibson. He’s from the conservative part of California, which I never knew there was one until I met Michael. Mike’s been in Memphis Investing with me since 2019, early 2020, and I wanted to bring him on today just to talk, because we get a lot of young investors that listen to the show, and they don’t have the experience you’ve got, or me, so they’re trying to piece together in their mind how this works. And the first thing I want to say is investing, and we talked about this yesterday, investing in most of life, there’s one simple rule you’ve got to follow, just have some damn common sense. If you use common sense in what you do, typically you’ll lessen your chances of failure or making a bad decision. Just use common sense. When you first came to me and we first connected, in your mind and what you visioned as far as investing in real estate versus what you know now today, three, four years later, how has that changed or has it changed? Are you still of the same mindset you had when you came to me the first time and started investing in Memphis?
Mike
0:02:53 – I would say it’s similar to the beginning, learning the areas, the markets, probably seeing how things are changing, how things are growing, especially with the Ford plant coming up north, northeast. But I would say with my experience in the past, I haven’t been surprised or shocked as much as I used to. I used to put my heart into it. And that’s something that you just don’t want to do.
Brett
0:03:20 – You don’t want to be emotionally invested because it creates bad decisions or creates stress.
Mike
0:03:26 – Yeah, sleepless nights.
Brett
0:03:27 – Yeah. Well, I mean, your first property, the first ones we purchased were in Raleigh, right?
Mike
0:03:34 – So we purchased a block of three.
Brett
0:03:37 – So the first property, or I think two of them are on Teslin, right next door to each other. Yes. I’ve actually used you as an example when we’ve talked about getting into markets that Glenn and I used to identify as emerging markets, markets that are on the way up. And we put you in Raleigh, those two on Teslin, as an example. And I don’t remember what we paid for them. I think we were in the 70s, low 70s somewhere.
Mike
0:04:02 – One was $59k, the other one was $65k.
Brett
0:04:07 – $65k, and then we put a little money into them. So you’re probably in the 70s, right? After all’s said and done, repairs and…
Mike
0:04:17 – I would say with the 3790 Teslin, we’re probably at around $73, $74,000.
Brett
0:04:23 – So on the 3780 Teslin, which I sold for you two years ago.
Mike
0:04:28 – I think it was one year ago this last summer.
Brett
0:04:30 – Right, yeah, okay. We put investors in Raleigh early on because we saw this upward growth coming. We were one of the few agents in Memphis to actually see that and actually start putting people, and we put a lot of people over there. And I want to use your 3780 Teslin as an example. We bought that for $60k.
Mike
0:04:48 – That was $59k, I believe.
Brett
0:04:49 – $59,000. We did put a little work into it. I think you had to put a sewer line in. You probably spent, was that the one, the sewer line we had to put in?
Mike
0:04:55 – Yeah.
Brett
0:04:56 – Okay. But then we just sold it two years ago for how much? $105,000?
Mike
0:05:00 – We sold it a year ago this last summer for $105k.
Brett
0:05:03 – $105k. So you saw that significant increase. Now, Raleigh’s still not doing that because it’s kind of capped out the 105, 110 number. Things are moving over into Frayser now. From what you expected going into it, compared to what it turned out to, was it what you expected? Was it better than expected? Was it less than expected?
Mike
0:05:20 – I think it’s right on. I rely on you for a lot because this is not my, I mean, I’ve studied this market, but it’s not like the market that I started out in California. But yeah, no, I think it’s right on par. Things, for the most part, go up. They don’t really go down unless you’re in California. We see super tidal waves where it can go up 200, 300,000, then it can go back down 200,000 to 300,000.
Brett
0:05:47 – Right, right. So, we’ve got those two in Teslin, and that’s a C, C plus neighborhood. Then we bought the one on Prescott.
Mike
0:05:53 – So I saw more of an advantage to own here, so I had a duplex that was paid for, so I sold that in California and then we did a 1031 almost dollar for dollar and I bought three properties here. One was on Prescott, Misty Bay and then Sungate. I don’t know what street that is.
Brett
0:06:15 – And the unique thing about those three properties is they are three completely different markets which I thought was smart because you diversified yourself. You bought another one in a CC+, you bought one in a B, and then you bought one in a B+, maybe could be an A-, I mean, we went through it yesterday. But out of those three, your biggest return on investment was which one? Would you say Prescott, maybe, based on what you paid and what you’re getting back?
Mike
0:06:42 – You’re talking just straight ROI?
Jeff
0:06:43 – Yeah.
Mike
0:06:44 – Yes, it would be Prescott because I bought it for $72,500 with the new roof. I think you only wanted $67k. Well, it was $2,500 for the roof, which is extremely cheap compared to where I come from, but that was $72,500 all in and we were at what, $650? And I raised her to $750 a month and now we’re at $850, and I’m probably going to raise her to $950.
Brett
0:07:06 – Yeah, you should be over $1,000 on that house by now, but that’s fine. I mean, your return on that one is pretty good. I always talk about the C, C+ neighborhoods because that is where you get your biggest ROI. However, you’ve got a little bit higher risk in those neighborhoods because you’re dealing with people that live paycheck to paycheck versus in Cordova or even Sungate in Bartlett, you’ve got…
Mike
0:07:29 – That’s blue chip stuff.
Brett
0:07:30 – Right. You don’t make a great ROI, but your money is sitting safe. It’s always slowly growing and the people pay their rent. So, yeah, I was just curious because you do have a diverse portfolio. I’ve got guys that buy only in Fraser and Raleigh. I’ve got guys that only buy – my Japanese only buy in Cordova and Bartlett, right? They only buy the higher end stuff that they don’t make a great return on. But they have a different tax law in Japan that allows them to write off so many things that we can’t write off so it becomes advantageous for them to buy those properties. And I just wanted people to hear from an investor who is in Memphis and has a diverse portfolio from A- down to C’s, but you would say overall your best returns are in the C neighborhoods, unfortunately, but you’ve had to deal with some evictions and you’ve had to deal with repairs and some other things that have come in. If you included that in your assessment, would you still say that those were your best ROI properties?
Mike
0:08:21 – Yeah, and so the only eviction, true eviction we had, I inherited a tenant, and so he never paid. That was during COVID. So it took us a while to get him out. I don’t think he thrashed the place. He just probably didn’t live to my expectations in one of my properties. But yeah, he left. We gave him cash for keys. Didn’t really work out the way I thought, but he was out. And then we put, I think about $7,200 into the place and then we got it rented really quickly, and the people that took it are still in there.
Brett
0:08:55 – Right. Knowing what you know about 3780 Teslin and we kind of figured out where the 3790 would sit if you decide to sell because we’re in discussion now about possibly selling off two that have gained some good equity and then rolling that 1031 into picking up something else around Sungate or in Cordova or one of these other B plus neighborhoods.
Mike
0:09:15 – Yeah, I’m not opposed to going into a blue chip area, but I kind of like maybe trying to gain a little bit more equity by doing something a little bit more risky, I guess we’d say.
Brett
0:09:27 – Well, I mean, yeah, we’re talking about Galloway. For those of you who are listening, don’t understand the geographics here. We have the one of the largest Ford plants, Blue Opal City, is that what it’s called? Blue Opal City. Going up in Stanton, which is about 25 minutes out of town. Between there and Memphis is a place called Galloway, which is gonna be the next hotspot, because they’re gonna need to create housing for close to 10,000 people that are going to end up living here in the next 3 to 5 years. So Michael’s thinking about maybe liquidating a few properties with equity here, and then rolling into Galloway and picking up something that, I think Galloway, whatever you can get in Galloway, is going to have a tremendous increase in equities as soon as that forward plan opens and people start moving in and moving into homes and renting and that whole area is just going to explode. So we’re going to work on moving Michael that direction. I just want to get your input on that, Mike. We got a bunch of stuff to talk about today.
Mike
0:10:18 – You want to talk about a brand new investor, someone that’s just got a little bit of money sitting around?
Brett
0:10:23 – So let’s go from a perspective as you’ve done this for a few years now and you’ve got a guy on the other end listening who’s thinking about buying his first rental. What would be your advice? What has been your experience? Be straight out about it, honest as you can be. How long have you owned properties now? Five years? I’m talking about in the Memphis market. Memphis market is unique, so a lot of investors come here, but it’s a lot of alligators in the water that you need to know about and understand before just jumping into a market like Memphis.
Mike
0:10:47 – I think I’m like three and a half years in here.
Brett
0:10:51 – Okay. All right. So I’m a young investor. I’ve never bought a house in my life. I’ve got a hundred grand that I’ve squirreled away over the last ten years and I want to do something with that money and real estate is my target. That’s what I really would like to put it into. What would you tell that brand new young investor as he goes into his starting to learn about how to do this?
Mike
0:11:11 – Okay, so you need a tool and that tool has to be income. There’s lots of variables. I would say if they have a good tool, they’re making a decent income. I would say the next question would be do they live locally or are they far away? If they’re out of town, then providing that they have good income. If they have good income, then I would say at least put down a third. Maybe on the conservative side, put 50% down on a property. So maybe they can get two. That would probably be, what, a C- property? $100,000?
Brett
0:11:44 – Yeah, yeah, C+. Raleigh, maybe a middle of the road Raleigh or Frayser, Whitehaven.
Mike
0:11:51 – Okay, so yeah, maybe, that’s kind of on the edge because in my opinion, I’m one of the more conservative investors. I would say they should have, I would say, $8k to $10,000, they put it in a bank account, that sits there, so you have basically, let’s say, $90,000 left. So they’ve got $45k and $45k.
Brett
0:12:10 – Okay. The 10 grand you put aside as a, oh shit, it’s raining day, something went wrong, I got to repair something.
Mike
0:12:15 – Yeah, it’s like a sewer that gets ran over or whatever. I had that happen. Yeah. I think it was 20 some odd hundred bucks. But yeah, I definitely need a reserve account, and maybe I’m being a little too conservative on 10 grand, maybe you only need a little less, but I would always venture to be more conservative, especially if you’re a brand new investor.
Brett
0:12:36 – Yeah. Cover your bases.
Mike
0:12:37 – Definitely, cover your bases.
Brett
0:12:39 – Because you did. We closed on Teslin and I think it was like two weeks later, the sewer line collapsed and you had to spend $2,500 to get all that pulled up and replaced. We talked about this before, a lot of young investors who’ve never owned property before don’t prepare for the oh shit moment, right? They don’t. They think I’m going to have three homes, I’m going to net out 400 bucks a home, that’s 1200 bucks a month, I’m going to go buy a new car and pay my car note with it.
Mike
0:13:04 – I wouldn’t do that at all. So if you’re going to buy some properties, that money should not be touched. And a matter of fact, I would even go a step further and say the money that you saved you keep doing that and add to it so you can double down and buy two more because if you’re gonna use your income to buy a car or boat or something fancy I would say don’t even do this Yeah, I would say keep squirreling away your money And I know that you’re probably gonna get married or you know you got some babies on the way so maybe it won’t be as much but especially when you’re young like I look back and we all live and learn, I could have done things differently and I could have had a lot more properties. I didn’t leverage like I could have. I mean I did in some ways because I bought stuff, California market went up $150,000 and I sold it and I bought some land and then that stuff shot up because we were stuck with it for a while because they couldn’t get the final because a squirrel got stuck in a vent pipe and it contaminated the water. That little squirrel made me $200,000. Right, right. So, you know, all these little things come up, but I would say yes. You know, when you’re young and you have the extra money, I would say put your other dreams on the sidelines and just keep doing this, and don’t expect to take that income. That is, I think, is highly dangerous.
Brett
0:14:20 – It is, it is. And the young guys do have that mindset because they go to these seminars and these guys that are pitching the seminar lessons are pitching getting rich in rental real estate, getting wealthy in real estate, and they’re not clarifying what that means. It doesn’t mean you’ve got tons of cash flow coming in. It means you’re building net worth, you’re building asset worth for what? What are you building yours for? You said yesterday.
Mike
0:14:44 – Well, I’d like to retire someday.
Brett
0:14:47 – You don’t want to work until you’re 80.
Mike
0:14:49 – No, and I enjoy what I do, but I’m kind of in a high-risk occupation. I mean, it could come and go, because I work in real estate with new home builders, and so I know that there could come a time where I’m going to have to wait a few years, and I’m not going to do that. I’m going to do other things, and I like real estate. But yeah, I’ve got a wife, and she makes good income. I have no bills. Looking back, I shouldn’t have paid off all my bills. I should have used that money to buy some more real estate. But being conservative as I am, I paid everything off. So we live debt-free and we can live very easily.
Brett
0:15:29 – And your goal, obviously, to retire is to end up building a portfolio of real estate that is paid for, that has a net worth value that you can then leverage or sell, liquidate, whatever to retire on. Or have enough of them paid for with enough income coming in where you don’t need to work anymore. Because now your properties are paid for and they’re just producing income, less your expenses.
Mike
0:15:52 – There’s so many ways to do it. My father knew this guy and he worked at the cannery for years and he bought all these rentals, I don’t know how many he had in California and he would refinance and pull equity out every few years and he lived on that. And I don’t know if he had income as well going on with those rentals, but that’s a great idea. And then when you die, your kids get a new cost basis, and he didn’t have to pay tax on that. That was tax-free because he was refinancing. That’s a beautiful way to…
Brett
0:16:23 – There’s a million ways to make money in real estate. I’m with you. I’m very conservative, and you’ve worked with me long enough to know that when we talk about property you and I are always on the conservative side of that worst case scenario. And if it works in a worst case scenario, then it’s probably a good buy. It’s probably a good investment. The main thing I preach, and Jeff and I talk about this all the time, is let the tenant who rents your home pay your expenses, your mortgage, and all of those things. Take the little bit of money you have left over, squirrel away enough for a rainy day in case something goes wrong with the house, then take some of that additional money you’re making and pay down the principal faster because your goal with this should be to have 30 homes by the time you’re 55 or 60. They’re all paid for with a net worth of $3, $4 million or whatever it is, and now you’ve got something you can retire with building wealth that way. You’re never going to build wealth on income for single-family rentals. I mean unless you just buy hundreds and hundreds and hundreds at a time. It’s just not going to happen.
Mike
0:17:24 – Yes, so I agree with you. You know, pay them off and then you’ve got this, you know, little nice nest egg. Robert Kiyosaki, he believes in leveraging and I agree that I could have done much better leveraging, but I’ve seen people taken out because they’ve leveraged many times over. So there’s a fine line there where you have to be very smart. If you’re a little foolish, even in the last crash, as conservative as I am, it almost took me out. Yes, if someone wants to leverage, they need to be very, very careful. I see these kids that they go in and buy and they rent out five rooms and they go to what they call house hacking. Yeah, I think it can work and there’s some kids that, you know, I’m on the Reddit forum and I see kids that have like 50 properties, 100 properties. That’s really dangerous because when are they going to get caught?
Brett
0:18:18 – We’re old enough to know, we’ve lived it many times over in our lifetimes, all of us here in this room, that the gravy chain is going to go off the tracks eventually, that nothing lasts forever. I know in the 2000s, people were loaning money and buying properties as if it was going to continue forever. But what happened in 2008, 2009, 2010, a lot of people lost everything they owned. Previous to that, we’ve had this happen over and over – it’s going to happen. If you’re conservative, you’re smart with your money, you’re smart with your rentals, you can survive a bad economy. And if you’re smart enough to squirrel away some cash for when the market does turn, then you reinvest that money into buying up more properties at a lesser price and let them grow over time. So I think what your advice to young investors, Mike, is very sound because you’ve been in it long enough, you’ve been around long enough, I’ve been around long enough, we’ve seen the good, the bad, the ugly. But the ugly, when it hits, a lot of people don’t recover from that. You lose everything you’ve dumped into it. You’re going bankrupt and starting over. I’m not one to want to start my whole life over every seven years because I’m too stupid. So the only thing, I am a little disappointed in his answers though, Mike. There’s one major, number one thing that you left out to a new investor about the first thing they should do when they want to invest?
Mike
0:19:38 – Call you.
Brett
0:19:39 – Thank you. You don’t have to call me. Call Jeff. I mean, call.. Listen, get on the phone the first couple of days before you even decide to buy and get on the phone with 10 or 12 agents in that market. If you come to Memphis, call me. Call me last though. You talk to the other nine agents first because then once you call me, you’ll be a slam dunk. Ten minutes with you, I’ll be your agent. Yeah, the first step is get a good agent, somebody that knows the market, somebody that has a work ethic, if you call an agent and leave them a message and they’re not responding to you within the hour, if they didn’t answer the phone, write them off and move on.
Mike
0:20:13 – Okay, so I’m gonna agree with that. You answer almost every call and if you don’t, you call me right back. That’s huge, I’ve dealt with a lot of realtors and they’re like sloths and they don’t have the work ethic. And that’s huge. That’s why I’ve told a lot of people about you. You’re a hustler and I appreciate that.
Brett
0:20:35 – Well, what we do, what Jeff and I do, is not rocket science. It’s common sense. But at the end of the day, if you live in California and you’re buying properties 2,500 miles away, I think we’re successful simply because of our work ethic, because we’re always on. We don’t work seven days a week, but our phones are on seven days a week.
Mike
0:20:52 – A lot of people don’t do that anymore, though.
Brett
0:20:54 – You call me Sunday night, I answer the phone. You call me Monday morning at 5 a.m., I answer the phone. I might not be happy about that 5 a.m., but I’ll answer the phone. And I think that’s all it comes down to, is you want somebody here that you can call when you’re sleepless at night and stressed out about a property to talk to, knowing that there’s somebody here that’ll be in a truck tomorrow going by there checking it out to put your mind at ease.
Mike
0:21:15 – Yes, and so they should definitely call you last. I think that if someone wants to get into this and they don’t have a lot of experience, the internet was kind of new when I started getting into this, you know, it was, I bought my first property in 1998, I was 28 years old. I don’t think the internet was that prolific, but my old buddy, which I still talk to, he’s 92, and I asked him, hey, how did you, you know, I didn’t want to pry too much, but how did you get so well to do? And he said, you just got to, you got to research real estate. You need to know everything, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I did. I made it like a habit. I was on the internet. I was single at the time. Well, no, I think I was married. I was married. I made it a big deal. You know, everybody’s got a phone. Most of them are on their phone all the time playing games doing stupid stuff. Take half of that time and be researching how real estate works. There’s so many ways to do it. It’s just time. You know everybody wants to sit on the front porch and drink beer and do whatever else they’re doing and look at stupid stuff. Spend the time on your phone in real estate. There’s so many things out there. We should be smarter now with our phones. I think we’re more dumbed down.
Brett
0:22:28 – Smartphones made us a lot dumber.
Mike
0:22:29 – It’s made us a lot dumber. But they should be researching because when they get a hold of you, you’re going to see that they, then you’re going to have to take their hand and take them around all this stuff so you can teach them. But if they have some knowledge and they have an idea of what they want and what they have to spend, and I think the biggest thing is they’re going to have a risk tolerance. Everybody has a risk tolerance, and you’re gonna have to figure that out. I know that took us a little bit of time. You took me around to different places with the iPhone, we were doing the FaceTime, and we kind of figured it out pretty quick. I have made a couple adjustments. I think I’m a little bit more on the less risk, but that’s only because I’m 53 years old now, and I can’t afford too much time. You know, but, yeah, you can’t just wake up and say, I want to be a real estate investment mogul. If you spend an hour a day on your phone researching within a few weeks, you’d have a pretty good idea. You know, there’s different forms of real estate, and then you can Google all these things that are going on around this area, Memphis, and by the time they call you, they’re going to have a pretty good idea and then you can do some fact finding with them and find out how much cash they have. And so we could throw this back at you. Let’s say someone wants to get into real estate. Let’s say they only have $30,000 or $40,000 grand. They have really good credit and maybe they have a pretty kicking job or they don’t have a lot of expenses. Do you have people that call you like that?
Brett
0:23:59 – Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I’ve got people that call me with millions of dollars in the bank. I’ve got people that call me with $25,000 in the bank wanting to buy their first house and try to get going and they don’t want to buy 10 homes today. They just want to buy their first one, run it for a year, understand it, then moving forward at that point. So that’s why I have so many diverse types of lenders, so many diverse types of contractors and everybody in our group is pretty diverse so we can handle any level of investment. But at the end of the day, it all comes down to one thing in my book, and that is, if you’re not physically here, you’ve gotta have somebody here that you trust, somebody knows what they’re talking about, you’ve gotta have somebody here that is not desperate for a paycheck to sell you whatever they can to get paid, that they really care about, you know. I’m very strict on how I look at properties, because I don’t wanna sell you a property or be your representative and in six months from now you want to come in here and kick my teeth in because I sold you this piece of crap, that isn’t producing and is costing you a ton of money. So I take pride in what I do. Jeff takes pride in what he does. He may not sound like it because he hasn’t said a word in 15 minutes, but he does.
Jeff
0:25:06 – Well, you just got to be willing to put the work in. We handle everything from the initial offer to the inspections of the property, we meet the contractors out there. If something goes wrong with the contractor, we feel you’re not being priced fairly, we’ll fact check that and get more contractors out there. We handle every single aspect of getting you through this process. It’s never really over with. We hook you up with the management companies, but we stay with you through this whole process. Brett’s had numerous calls from investors questioning contractor pricing, questioning decisions a property management company made. You know, Brett steps in and alleviates the problems and ends up saving his investors thousands of dollars in repair costs just because he’s willing to get out there and be your representative here because you can’t be here.
Brett
0:25:57 – I was asked a question one time by another agent, I won’t mention his name, he’s in the investment game. I don’t remember the scenario, but I was on the road all day with multiple issues. None of them were yours, but similar, about three months ago. It came down to where all the people that said they were gonna do things didn’t do what they said they were gonna do, so what I did is I jumped in, got in the middle of it, and started fixing, like taking care of all the little issues and untangling it. And he asked me point blank, why the hell do you do that? You don’t get paid to do that. I said, you know why? I said, because these guys, I’m about to fix their problem for them. When they come back to buy, they’re going to buy for me. They’re going to buy 10 homes and 20 homes. So I’m investing in the future. And I think if a real estate agent in this market looked at anything beyond tomorrow’s paycheck, they could be successful, but they don’t. There’s very few agents in this game that love investment real estate and the ones that do, I mean there’s probably maybe seven of us in Memphis that actually love what we do and have that same work ethic, but most of them are just looking to make money and they don’t care if your property doesn’t work out. They don’t care if the tenant there is garbage. They don’t care if it’s got a sewer line that’s about to collapse. What they care about is closing it, getting that commission check, and then hopefully you won’t hear from them again until they’re broke and need to sell another house and they’ll try to pitch you something else. Yeah, I guess I got a unique way of looking at this business. Maybe that’s why we’re successful. So look, our number is 901-692-7401 if you’re interested in getting into real estate. Or if you just want to pick somebody’s brain, call us.
Mike
0:27:28 – And Brett will answer his phone.
Brett
0:27:29 – I will answer my phone. And I’ve talked to hundreds, if not thousands of investors over the years that don’t do business with me, but they’ve called me, picked my brain, discussed different options and what do you think about this and then they never came back to me. They ended up buying another state or something like that and that’s fine. I’m free of charge basically. I will say I’ve enjoyed having Mike here. We went down to the lake house this weekend out on the boat and got to spend some casual non-work time together and it’s it’s been fun. I’m looking forward to next year us all getting together again. Jeff and Angel were down with us and it’s been a good time and I’ve enjoyed having you. It’s been fun. And I thank everybody for listening to this 5 O’Clock Somewhere Real Estate Podcast. Remember, 901-692-7401. Call Brett, call Jeff, but if you need advice, you want to talk about the Memphis market, you want to talk about real estate investing, just please call us. We’d love to talk to you.